(They are called Sea Lawyers, Guardhouse Lawyers, Barrackroom Lawyers, etc not much different than regular lawyers..). The company commander where this usually occured (himself a former Ranger) could only tell the locals to cooperate with him, or else the bad men who blow stuff up would come. On January 13, 2015 at 6:29 pm, Ken said: I googled this is find out why did the seals of operation red wings let the herders go without confirming evacuation. After reading all the comments on the issue, I agree that the seals lacked planning. In the Long-Range Surveillance Unit Operations FM(FM 3-55.93 or FM 7-93) There is a section on contingencies: Saddams Iraq and Taliban-infested, lawless rural Afghanistan posed major threats to US civilians and the innocents of nations allied with the US. The debate and vote on this issue is probably the single most offensive thing I read in that book. The QRF wouldve been able to spin up a hell of a lot faster than guys coming all the way from JBAD. We dropped many multiples of more bombs on North Vietnam than on Japan or Germany, yet we prided ourselves in our precise targeting. They had tie raps A lot of them but knew if they tied everyone up the mission would be over. A more likely plan that coincides with released information was simply to verify the presence of the target, slip away, and hand the intelligence back to the decision-makers. USA motherfuckers. Im more astonished at the fact that one of the SEALs werent carrying a Mk46 in case the shit hit the fan like it did, they really needed the suppressive fire. You can be a stud with an M4 and the best crackshot in the world, but theres no training/preparing for 12 (or 100) guys that are firing down on you from a superior position with 7.62 rounds and rockets from 270 degrees around you. Me I served in the late 70s early 80s in 2/75. The kid would be a rough decision. These guys have sympathize everywhere and a 12 man team trying to fight on a mountain makes for sitting ducks. I suspect a different reasonmaybe something closer to the one given in Murphys Medal of Honor citation. Heads in high command should have rolled for that. The Right to bear arms is a constant, regardless of the Constitution or land in which one resides. I should say up front that I like for the comments to be free flowing where readers can disagree with my views (respectfully, of course). Period. The CO didnt want to hear about problems because theyre all playing the my dick is bigger than your dick game. More to the point, what about the guys that sent them there without proper support. Why didnt they use VHF or UHF? Sir, we can debate the merits of actions and policys, but please refrain from talking down to me and name calling is childish. They actually never tried to use the SAT phone until AFTER they were ambushed. The question being addressed was not and was never how do you conduct a specops recon mission with minimal force and virtually no capability to conduct combat. How compassionate. In hind site it seems clearSEND THE APACHES. I was in Fallujah with a Seal Team and my guys and we linked up with the Devil Dogs that owned the battle space. On July 2, 2015 at 8:20 pm, Liberty's Teeth said: Find the word democracy in ONE of our founding documents. I know that if I have one of those.next to me and shit goes south I can depend on them. They dont really get conventional combat training. Keep doing what you do! The fact that they had suppressed, scoped weapons shows that they were not prepared to lay down suppressive fire. On July 2, 2015 at 8:23 pm, RKelley said: I didnt write that we were trying to spread democracy. Travis, I didnt ask why the airmen of WWII were able to sleep well. have served as infantry or in other combat formations - or at least have a strong tradition of combat arms to draw upon - and naturally already have strong fundamentals reinforced by experience they gained when they were still humble. The Rangers served 3-4 month tours in special compounds with their own special chow. Google it! When I read the Red Wings story those questions immediately rose. Poor Planning use of QRF assets and Chinooks? The comma were the issue, go high call it in and egress. My father was in Korea in the Marines and thats where I started my military training, lol. http://www.captainsjournal.com/2007/08/31/the-swing-of-the-pendulum/. In fact, I recommend that you do what I do. Let the Rangers and Marines handle these kinds of mission. 3. I know SEALs are the best of the best but if Regular Army or Marine Corps surveillance units have these types of SOPs why cant they? In homage to the men that were killed, Lone Survivor closely mirrors the true story of Operation Red Wings, a tragic 2005 mission gone wrong in Afghanistan. There is a lot of what ifs. The problem is, most of you are too dumb, close-minded and angry to face the real problem. When they were walking in the movie I could hear metal jangling. The whole FM outlines how to conduct a proper surveillance mission to include an E and E plan. Id turned into a f king liberal, a half-assed, no-logic nitwit, all heart, no brain, and the judgment of a jackrabbit.. He reminded me of a mission in Panama where SEALs were to take an airport? On January 20, 2014 at 6:04 pm, Josh said: A USMC fire team is four men dedicated to providing ammunition, extra barrels and flank and rear security for a SAW. The military is not a democracy, there is no vote. On June 7, 2014 at 6:45 pm, jamescrackscorn said: SEALs are bad ass but they are not immortal nor are they bullet proof. On July 15, 2014 at 7:34 pm, DirtyHarold said: Great to read this assessment, it is spot on. From what I know there were 3 incidents in Afghanistan where reaction forces were ambushed the same way all 3 involving SEALS :TakurGar/Roberts Ridge,Redwings,and Team Six. In my time with special ops, I never had a problem with supporting assets. Are they at fault for the high crimes of a small percentage of their countrymen; countrymen who in the minds of the goat herders are defending the country in which they are herding goats? On July 7, 2014 at 2:47 pm, Chris Hennon said: First thing Id like to address is the Seals act like they dont need anyone for support, or that they all walk around with a Im better than anyone attitude. Operation Red Wings | Military Wiki | Fandom The gentleman who was talking about WW2 and the bombing campaign is incorrect in his assertion that that would make killing 2 goat herders ok. Attempting to take the goat herders to the top of the mountain would have slowed them and left them in the same situation, as well as told the goat herders that they were unwilling to shoot them, at which point the goat herders would have done the same thing, run down the mountain and tell the Taliban commanders). The whole he lied to us thing is playing dumb. This discussion thread has worn out its usefulness. Its all a day dream. As another reader mentioned, SAWs, 60s, etc. I also never asserted that such things did not happen. The 4 member team was too small in number to adequately meet any of these priorities. Its simply a statement of where our priorities are as a military and a nation. And as for snipers in Afghanistan, I was questioning whether they were guilty of murder. Due to the uncertainty of the situation, contingencies require plans, rapid response, and special procedures to ensure safety and readiness of personnel and equipment. They were wearing reflective sun glasses while on patrol. I hope every soldier that watched that movie learned from that mistake and if they are in that situation, they think about what should be done. The one thing I kind of disagree with in the assessment is the inclusion of a SAW on such a small team. Im also unsure why you seem to think I dont talk to veterans or research previous wars. Your response to me focused on whether management approved. On June 26, 2014 at 6:31 pm, Aquitas said: You have no idea what youre talking about. I will say that any decision should be based on a time to extraction. This is the crux of the problem right here. On February 12, 2014 at 12:43 pm, SteveXjarhead said: Tactical lessons learned from the incidents of June 28 should always start with mission priorities (in no particular order) of observation, communication, personnel security and contigency planning. The more firepower you have, the less mobil you are, and youre slower and louder. I believe this guys story and I know Hollywood through their weight in also. I am, but I rather suspect that many of my readers simply put up with my theology to read the rest. My lasting impression of Naval Special Warfare was that they played a great deal of ping-pong in Baghdad dressed in polos and khakis. Redwings was a Marine Corps operation by the way. Thank you for your service. But if they are dead, you would have never known. From the dozen or so books Ive read by SEALs, detailing SEAL training and missions, SEAL history, etc. I would have popped both goat herders and then popped all of the goats. If we can do it there, then eventually they will do it here. On July 11, 2014 at 2:36 pm, RKelley said: Disclaimer: I am not a soldier and never have been. Public servants going straight from the VP desk to office is the problem. Knowing he was in Indian territory and knowing the consequences if his unit location was known the solution was whether to hold the high moral ground or risk his men. That should have been a air strike and get the hell out. The recon team would observe in a 4 to 6 man team as trained. Fallen Army Hero and Pilot of Operation Red Wings Signed with Orioles A few years ago, I was a pilot and platoon leader in a Nightstalker helicopter unit in Bagram, Afghanistan, meaning I was. It is not the first time, and it will not be the last either. We often ask, and are encouraged to ask, how wed feel if we killed an innocent and that would be a terrible burden to bare. Our society failed this man because he was set up for a lifetime of guilt and anguish. My other issue was why didnt they let the battlespace commander know they were operating in the area? On August 6, 2014 at 8:34 am, SHOTGUN285 said: Wow, you really are batshit crazy, arent you Susan? It was obviously bad and barren way up there in the Hindu Kush . It was something they were very good at in Vietnam. They are famous for the roles they played in both the Battle of Mogadishu and the mission to kill Usama Bin Laden but are revered throughout the special operations community for acts of valor that often never see the light of day due to the classified nature of their work. Also the Taliban was not their, but in another country! In the Long-Range Surveillance Unit Operations FM (FM 3-55.93 or FM 7-93) There is a section on contingencies: I understand that SEALs are pretty bad ass. How those Seals got made by a couple herders is beyond me. Taken together, this suggest to me that Shahs men were already aware of the seal teams general location before the herders possibly could have raised the alarm.